Gratitude is just delusion, or is it?

Frank: 0:45

I'm going to give you five choices of words, and then you can tell me the one that you like the best.

Jake: 0:50

Okay, I'm going to play a game Bum Fuzzle. Uh-huh, it's going to be that one Continue.

Frank: 0:59

Don't choose before you know. Okay, caddy Wampus, abibliophobia oh wow. Fear of libraries, a fear of running out of things to read, okay, books. Who has that?

Jake: 1:19

Seriously, that is obviously an antiquated word. Back in like 200 years ago oh now I've read every book in the province.

Frank: 1:28

Yeah, I think Abraham Lincoln, just a call back to last week's episode, did have that. Yeah, I think he actually did Okay.

Jake: 1:36

Um.

Frank: 1:37

I don't know if he had a fear of it, but he definitely ran out of books to read.

Jake: 1:42

I recall a story that I learned in kindergarten. I remember my kindergarten teacher telling me that the log cabin that Abraham Lincoln grew up in had a slit between two of the logs near his bed. Yeah, that he would store a book in and apparently it was exposed to the elements. He put it in there one night after reading. It rained, it ruined the book and he did something. You know this was like a lesson about integrity and stuff, so he worked for like Chopped down cherry tree or something, yeah.

Jake: 2:18

To pay back the bookstore owner, you know, for this book, or whatever. But yeah, this is what I think of when I think of Abraham Lincoln.

Frank: 2:25

Yeah, he could be just a degenerate of a human, but they really used him to shape people's integrity around these parts.

Jake: 2:34

No doubt, man. Well, yeah, we grew up in Central Illinois, which is you know where Abraham Lincoln spent a lot of his time, and that dude's face is everywhere, yeah, um, yeah, that's a different conversation, but I did have, um, when I was in school. Once every two weeks or so I'd go out for drinks with these historians and historians. Um, you know, we're talking about, like, what is the role of a historian? Because it is very obvious that we're creating mythic images of, like, our founding fathers. Yeah, and every time that we find, like a journal that talks about you know how they were raping slaves or something like that, there's actually a question in the historian community that's like, do we release this? Because, in a way, these, these historic figures, are not realistic in any way and our country kind of needs the cohesion of having these people to look up to as a moral guide. So sometimes they actually talk about, like, not releasing this stuff so that people don't know it, because we don't want to lose our heroes.

Frank: 3:45

Right.

Jake: 3:45

All right, so bumfuzzle, caddy Wampus a bibliophobia.

Frank: 3:52

Snolly.

Jake: 3:52

Goster. Oh, that's in tight running. That one's in the race.

Frank: 3:57

And lolly gag. Okay, all right. Do you know what they all mean?

Jake: 4:03

I know what caddy Wampus means, like uh, you know off balance or whatever. Um lolly gag means to like be not lazy, but you're like wasting time to spend time aimlessly. Yeah, a bibliophobia? Well, obviously we talked about that. I do not know what bumfuzzle is and I don't know what snolly Gaster.

Frank: 4:33

Snolly Goster.

Jake: 4:34

Snolly Goster and boy oh boy, do I love them.

Frank: 4:37

What are those words? Bumpfuzzle is a term that refers to being confused, perplexed or flustered.

Jake: 4:44

Okay, that's about what I. I use the word cunfuzzle a lot.

Frank: 4:48

Yeah, I think it's similar. You can use bumfuzzle now.

Jake: 4:52

I'm bumfuzzled.

Frank: 4:54

I don't know that I will. Well, you really liked it when I gave it to you. I do really like it, Uh. And then snolly Goster is a term for a politician who does or says things for their own personal advancement. So it means politician.

Jake: 5:12

It's actually just a synonym for politician.

Frank: 5:15

Right Snolly Goster.

Jake: 5:17

Yeah, wow, that's so cool man. Yeah, I'm so thankful that you did that. Did you choose one of?

Frank: 5:25

your five. I thought we were choosing your favorite one.

Jake: 5:28

My favorite um just in man bumfuzzle and snolly Goster, really Just in terms of how they feel, they don't feel like real words at all.

Frank: 5:43

Caddy Wampus I mean that's, that's pretty great. That's what it's, that's where it's at for me.

Jake: 5:48

I'll tell you, the first time I ever heard the word caddy Wampus I can still remember it to this day it was the cover of a book. Uh, I was probably in first grade or something like that, and it was like a real caricaturized um stadium. I want to say it was a basketball court and so in one place, you know, a guy was shooting a basket and then there were all these people, uh, cheering in the crowds. Well it was, it was a caricaturization. So, like you know, um features on people were exaggerated, including this one lady's boobs that were just ginormous Well, at least one of them was, and my neighbor's dad Saw that. He said, wow, those are kind of caddy wampus, aren't they what?

Jake: 6:43

Yeah so now, actually that word brings an image to my mind of these cartoon boobies.

Frank: 6:50

Yeah, caddy wampus cartoon Boobies. That's it cleavage. Caddy wampus cartoon cleavage. Well, the cleavage had to be caddy wampus if the boobs were possibly it's just it's not the cleft that I think of it's.

Jake: 7:09

You know, the cleft is the absence of it's the curves. I was thinking, yeah, exactly the under curves, yeah yeah.

Frank: 7:19

Good talk what's the segment called? This segment is theme song detour Jake words Words with Jake a detour. You didn't intend to take something like that. I like it yeah that's exactly you created it so yeah, that's why I like it.

Jake: 7:37

I just made it fulfilling for all where it's with Jake Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't don't don't A detour you didn't intend to take yeah, this was like the reprise. It was just kind of like we already did that part, so now it's like yeah, fades out. What do we want to talk about, frank?

Frank: 7:58

I don't know, maybe gratitude I was thinking the same thing is that cuz we planned it. Yes, I Think people are gonna be really disappointed hearing that we planned it and then what we're about to do.

Jake: 8:12

Isn't that interesting, though, is like there is this feeling of and Elizabeth did this yesterday and it cracked me up we were walking into a restaurant, we had snow on our shoes and she started stomping before we got inside and she was like god forbid people would know we were walking in the snow. I Mean, it's just covered in snow outside, like there's they all have been covered in snow, but like these weird little things that were embarrassed by as humans, yeah oh, I don't want them to know that I pooped in there, right, this is similar. It's like we didn't plan this podcast. We're just really great talkers, you know. Just come up with these ideas on the spot.

Frank: 8:54

That's right, that is how we usually do it, but I I think really it's difficult for me to practice gratitude sometimes and I Wondered a few thought it also is I don't think it is for you. That's what I really mean.

Jake: 9:16

Yeah, I definitely Feel that I've got a pretty positive disposition in general that to me, feels coupled with gratitude. Yeah, I don't really find gratitude difficult. It's not something I have to really intentionally push into. What do you mean when you say it's difficult for you?

Frank: 9:40

Well, I just, if I don't do anything, I find myself with negative thoughts. Okay, but if I practice gratitude, then I noticed that it's very difficult to be thankful and grateful and also Angry or disappointed at the same time.

Frank: 10:01

Yeah so I have a gratitude practice that's super intentional in the mornings but it doesn't always Like I'm like I know I'm here to do gratitude but I don't want to Do we're gonna be mad right now. Yeah, we're mad that we're doing gratitude or something like. That's the energy I have to overcome to get to doing gratitude practice.

Jake: 10:28

So, for instance, because I've experienced the same thing. Okay, when I get to that place, my brain and I don't take credit for this like this is just whatever was developed as a kid. It goes. I'm so glad that I'm angry right now, because what use is it practicing gratitude when it's easy Like yay this is perfect, so dumb yeah, that sounds delusional.

Frank: 10:59

There is something to. I think it's helpful to you. I don't know how to get it if you don't have that sort of Automatically. But yeah, I so I do think. I mean sounds like you're talking about resilience, which we talked about last week, so we can't talk about it again, right?

Jake: 11:20

Yeah, it's impossible to talk about that again. Yeah, well, I said, when you first brought up the idea of gratitude, I was like, okay, that sounds like a similar conversation to me and and for that reason you said, no man, it's totally different. So for that reason, like I'm like, frame this for me, what? What do you think of when you think of gratitude? What do you think of when you think of the obstacles to gratitude? Why do we want it?

Frank: 11:49

in our lives, cuz we're problem focused. Okay, and I don't. If you think of your life as a, I'm struggling because I want to make it an actually applicable Example and I want to do the thing where it's unique, so it's fun. It's so hard, yeah, but I'll go with the dumb basic. All right, so you're, if, if life is, you are a customer support agent. Mm-hmm, you're sort of going from problem to problem and helping People with their problems. This isn't what life is, but it's a good example for this scenario.

Jake: 12:39

Sure.

Frank: 12:39

It's a good scenario for this example. Rather, it Becomes very easy to just see the problems and think everything is problems and it it would only be through Choosing your focus, choosing to set your focus on. All those problems I put in last month aren't happening. These are all different Mm-hmm. So it's, everything's getting better or you know, it's like it's not the place you would automatically go. If you're just Sort of looking at what's around you as a customer support agent, you're not like. I'm glad they made that change so customers can, yeah, upload their own profile picture and I don't have to do that every day, all day anymore.

Jake: 13:34

Yeah.

Jake: 13:34

I'm totally yes. That's honestly a perfect example of how I feel, like I've lived my life on autopilot for a very long time, because To me, it is that difference between the infinite and the finite game. In the finite game, you solve one problem and you get another one and you're like what is happening here? I Can, I never climb out of this hole. And in the infinite game you go. The game I'm playing is solving problems and when I get through this one, my reward is the next one, but I've got more experience, or something like that.

Jake: 14:44

Yeah and it allows us to sort of dance in that or float in that place.

Frank: 14:52

Yeah, so I think gratitude can give you energy for the Infinite game mm-hmm.

Frank: 15:03

It can give you a sense that the world is good or the things you're doing are good, or Sort of help you see the track when it seems to have disappeared, or get back on track when you're blown off, or, yeah, even just Help you build a narrative that sort of Is like oh, I mean, hard times are a part of the overall story, which seems to be amazing. I can Walk outside and feel like cool wind on my face and that's like a pretty cool thing and to keep doing that I just have to get through these things. But you wouldn't. You know, that's very different from I just have a list of stuff and I hate it. Yeah, I wish I didn't have all this crap today.

Frank: 15:49

Mm-hmm if you can say, like you know, take a walk outside and feel the wind. You're like oh, I mean, this is a pretty cool place to be in, though we're in yeah. Sort of changes the energy Absolutely. So I think that's what, what it really is, gratitude.

Jake: 16:12

It's funny because there's this piece of me and you said it at the beginning. That's like, yeah, so gratitude is just delusional. It's just like almost making up a reason for this being good, yeah, that thing is exactly gratitude.

Frank: 16:29

Yeah delusion, but the but maybe it is. I mean, that's because it's true, it's gratitude, the thing is true. You can't really do with the false insight, correct?

Jake: 16:39

You have to actually believe it. I think that's the key.

Frank: 16:41

Yeah, the delusion part is to jump from. I'm in a horrible like I'm in a house fire and there's fire all around me, and this is great. I get to learn how to get out of fires.

Jake: 16:56

So to that I say this is Anything not a delusion and I don't want to go into the whole hemisphere, I'm trying not to but the belief that it was a problem and that you can't be happy until you get to the end of that problem is just as delusional, as this problem is gonna make me better and I'm so happy that I get to tackle it. They are meanings derived from a core belief about the world around you. It's just a difference in the way you're approaching it.

Frank: 17:37

Yeah, I disagree, so I.

Jake: 17:42

Do see some very delusional qualities in me and I have questioned them in the past and say like, dude, are you, are you really just making up a silver lining to this cloud? Yeah and I think that for me, specifically as an eagram 7, that is a Trap that I have to watch out for.

Frank: 18:14

What is? I'm sorry.

Jake: 18:16

Believing that something is good that isn't so like I could be in a Codependent relationship and I'll be like no, this is good, this is just a challenge. I get to grow from this. Yeah and that is a coping mechanism to that kind of actually keeps me in a bad place Because I don't recognize the reality of the situation that I actually have to actively get out of. Yeah, that's how it's hardwired into me to look at the positive of everything.

Frank: 18:53

Yeah.

Jake: 18:54

So for me it's always looking. Is this intentional or is this compulsive? That's the question I have to ask myself to ask if I'm actually delusional. You can discern that usually usually yeah, now again, it's a developed skill. Yeah, it's not delusion. No, you said that pretty objectively, pretty definitively.

Frank: 19:22

Yeah. Delusion, according to the internet, is A belief or impression that is firmly maintained, despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality.

Jake: 19:38

Okay, yeah.

Frank: 19:43

So you can just change the group of people in your reality, the ones that are also delusional. You're fine.

Jake: 19:52

Generally accepted is the operative term there.

Frank: 19:55

Yeah.

Jake: 19:56

That's. I mean, that's sort of the the hive mind of coal mindset, though right is like that's how it's perpetuated, definitely is yeah, I think it's having.

Frank: 20:09

I Was trying to use an AI to To sort of combine the ideas of delusion and the role it can play in developing gratitude during difficulty, but it has too much of a positive intent and it's oh sure. And it thinks delusion is a bad thing. So, yeah, it's can't really do the trick I wanted to do, but we can. Yeah, absolutely.

Jake: 20:37

It's very interesting to me, like if I go back into my childhood and I believe that I developed a disposition of gratitude as A way to avoid shame like number one motivator in Jake's life as a kid avoid shame, maintain acceptance in your social group, be the golden child, and so the way that I did this.

Jake: 21:02

I know right the way that I did this was to Look at the hard lessons. Like you know, one of them from a young age was like, hey, it's not about the money, follow your passions. I was like I'm gonna be the one who does that. Hey, when you're in a hard situation, think of things to be grateful for. Okay, I'm gonna be the one who does that. And the thing about gratitude that you kind of pointed out a little bit ago is that it's freaking infectious. Once you start seeing good things, you start seeing them in that light. Yeah, and so, like that's what I meant when I said I don't really take credit for this gratitude disposition. I actually think it started, you know, kind of in an unhealthy way, but that gratitude has infected and it's almost hard to see things in a negative way. Yeah and I'm not saying this is my whole life, just to throw that out there like I do experience negative thoughts.

Jake: 22:05

I do think that people are out to get me. Sometimes these are real things. But I Do also find it relatively easy to switch to a group gratitude mindset.

Frank: 22:16

Yeah, so you've never had the experience of like a Blank page, write 10 things you're grateful for and you just can't fill the page up. No, not even close. What if it's three? You can definitely do three, because some days I have three is my. I want to just like think, re-experience three. That's sort of part of my Morning routine and some days I'm like I Mean I have a pretty good way to get around it. I just go back to one that I always use. But yeah, this doesn't ever feel hard. This wouldn't feel hard for you.

Jake: 22:57

No, well, it brings up a question like when you're having a hard time filling out that list, do you feel Like you're thinking too big, like it has to really be justifiable to put it on there? If I just put this little thing that is, it's kind of like cheating the test.

Frank: 23:16

No, not really. No, not really. I mean I often put small things on there like okay, sunshine or the wind, or yeah, even cold, feeling of cold, okay, or warmth. No, I just don't. I don't know what it is, but it's just, it's like a brain block or something. It's like we're not gonna think like that. Stop it. There are too many problems today to be happy. Okay, damn it. Huh, I get through it. What if?

Jake: 24:02

I asked you to write a list of three things to be upset about. How easy is that?

Frank: 24:10

It's not very easy either. Actually, we might just be dealing with general depersonalization. Fair enough, I mean, that's the real question.

Jake: 24:22

Right Is like do. I just have a generally negative disposition, or do I just have a hard time engaging with experience?

Frank: 24:30

Yeah, that's it, it's the. Yeah, it's no easier to write negative than positive. Actually, it's just some days it feels really difficult to get in touch with the world or something. Okay, maybe that's the real problem. I don't know.

Jake: 24:46

This maybe doesn't have anything to do with gratitude, but nevertheless, you do have a gratitude practice, and you haven't always had one. Yeah, what have you noticed? That's changed as a result.

Frank: 25:01

Well, if you do it, it just can't really coexist with the two things. Okay, the second one is what I was about to talk about, but it's probably way less important. Okay, the first thing is it does seem to put me in touch with the world, yeah. So I don't know why this example comes to mind, but it does, so it's probably useful. You have a very one thing I've always sort of respected or valued or something is that you always have your physical space beautiful, okay, and so I've always been. I've always sort of wished that that was a thing, but it isn't for me, but it is something I'm grateful for, and so, like, I do appreciate beauty on some level, but it's really hard to be in touch with it, and so if I put it on the gratitude list, then I'm like I should really pick up that Area over there, so that this place is a little more beautiful to work in.

Frank: 26:15

That's interesting.

Jake: 26:21

Because what that does psychologically is it's almost like you're interviewing yourself. You're saying what are the things that I do like? Yeah, and how? Is my environment, my behavior, my life not in alignment with that? Yeah, so in a way, it's not just about the environment, yeah. So in a way, it's not just about finding the things that you appreciate that are already there. It actually is an action signal to bring more of the things you're grateful for into your life.

Frank: 26:49

Right, yeah, so that's probably one big benefit, especially for me, is just it sort of makes it more real or something. The I don't know it's just intention setting or something on some level. Okay, you know, if you, if you put yourself in the experience of looking at a beautiful sunrise or sunset or whatever, even if you're not looking at it, you just go there in your mind and then you're done with your gratitude practice and you see a huge stack of papers that no one's sorted in forever and a mess everywhere. You're like, yeah, I mean, I like beauty, but this place is a mess. Or you see your 10,000 windows on your desktop and they have messages and things that you need to do in them. Yeah, it sort of is like I've got to get this stuff tidied up a little bit. So it does have a some connection. But but then it also like the mainstream benefit of gratitude is just that it's really hard to be in a negative headspace when you're in a positive headspace.

Jake: 28:01

Yeah, yeah for sure. So that was the second thing.

Frank: 28:05

Yeah, okay.

Jake: 28:06

Got it. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's the whole half life of an emotion thing that we've talked about before. Right, it's like an emotions half life is like six seconds unless you feed it, and when you feed it it gets longer. And, yeah, like six seconds. Ok, at the four second mark I feed it. Now I'm up to 10 seconds at the eight second mark and now it's like self perpetuating.

Frank: 28:34

Well, and each one builds my own to yes. So then you insulate the pathway and it becomes more and more likely you'll choose it again.

Jake: 28:43

OK, so talk about that Now. The half life of a specific emotion. Let's say it's anger. I didn't used to be an angry person. Half life of that emotion was six seconds. Now I get angry and it's 40 seconds. It's like sure that thing can go a lot harder and trigger a bigger reaction in the body which is like this feedback loop Right.

Frank: 29:06

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I don't know, some of the language you're using makes it hard for me to, ok, perpetuate the idea, but but not for any good reason, really just wording. I guess you could think about it like this I really like omelets. Who wouldn't? I love an omelet, but they're sort of. They aren't that difficult to make, but they are difficult. I mean, there's effort for sure.

Frank: 29:43

Yeah, you gotta either chop up all the ingredients, you gotta figure out how you're gonna cook it, you gotta make sure the whites don't get blocky. Yeah, you gotta sort of pay attention to it. You gotta clean it all up when you're done. So if you have like this small intention, like I'd like to make an omelet, and you have all your childhood that your parents told you you would be a failure and that your dad was like you're just gonna end up in prison, all of these ideas that you sort of aren't very good, that have all this myelin around them, you're like I don't even come out good, I'm gonna burn it, it's gonna be blocky. You know, I'm not good at that, so I don't make the omelet.

Jake: 30:39

Yeah.

Frank: 30:40

So how do you overcome that?

Jake: 30:48

Yeah.

Frank: 30:50

If you start with gratitude, then you can be like I like omelets. I've made them before and they came out pretty good. There it is. Yeah, I remember that that was pretty cool, I'm gonna try it. Yeah, you know, that's the difference. I think, yeah, that it can make. It's just sort of, if you're in this positive intent mindset that gratitude promotes, you might find yourself in a more enjoyable experience than the one that's like I'm not gonna make an omelet because I suck.

Jake: 31:24

That's. I totally get that. For me, that experience is even different than that too. I don't, because I don't have those same like I'm gonna ruin it. I'm not good sort of feelings. I do have, it's not worth it feelings, yeah, and so that's sort of what I meant whenever I said like I'm creating this feedback loop that's like multiple systems wide at certain points. If, when you said, imagine that sunrise or that sunset, and I did, I felt a bodily response and it was joy.

Jake: 32:08

It was joy right, and I've had similar situations I think I've said this before when I hated the job that I was in. When I'd wake up in the morning, it was miserable. And so I made this decision that the first action I would make every single morning was to smile. I would physically smile, and what's crazy about that is that when the body is creating this signal that you're happy, the mind starts going what am I happy about? And it finds stuff, and that's really cool. So not only is there this like myelin that's thicker in creating these neural pathways that are easier to traverse faster, but the body and these hormonal signals start to get into it as well. And it's like if I'm angry and it's really easy to get angry I can change that thought. But what if the body already started to respond to it? And what if I started to feel that uprising in my gut and my body started shaking a little bit? Then my mind goes no, but your body's like sending me anger signals. I gotta figure out why I'm angry.

Jake: 33:20

And so then it asks the question again and it's like there's all these things going on, but gratitude is the same way, right it's? I am picturing the end state. I'm picturing sitting out on my porch and it's a warm day and the sun is shining and the birds are chirping and I'm eating that omelet and there's these fresh ingredients and I feel connected and all of a sudden, when I start thinking about those things and putting myself in that place, it's like my body is experiencing that already, and then it starts to perpetuate the joy and it starts to perpetuate the desire to put forth the effort to make the omelet because, guess what, it is worth it. I do wanna be in that state.

Frank: 34:07

Hmm, so as a callback to last week when you did you do this for the CrossFit coaching day with the cold weather and the falling and the classes no one showed up to Not specifically for that day, but for CrossFit coaching in general.

Jake: 34:28

There has always been a conflict because I coach in the mornings before I do my day job. There's always been a conflict between waking up at 3.30 in the morning and my desire to coach. That's a big problem. I like to sleep at 3.30. Sure, but I do put myself in that state because multiple times I've woken up at 3.30 in the morning, been angry about it. Get to the gym and, before you know it, time doesn't exist. I'm coaching, I'm in my flow state. I'm hanging out with people, people are smiling, I'm watching successes happen and I love it, and so I've sort of encoded that experience in my mind. So now, the night before I go to bed, it's not 3.30 in the morning. When I wake up, it's before I go to bed. I go, I can't wait to be in that state, and it totally skips over the 3.30 in the morning. That's just a price you pay for admission to get to that place that you wanna be in.

Frank: 35:28

Okay. So if you had, like a mental picture when you fell down the icy stairs, it's that state. You're not consciously thinking of it, but you're like I'm headed there, so it's no big deal, just get up.

Jake: 35:41

That was the two people at the table conversation that I talked about last week. It made me laugh because I went. This is exactly what I expected. Uh-oh, the bad expectations are getting met. That voice in my head wants me to be angry about this, and I just watch it with amusement. I'm like no, I'm not gonna be Like you expected this. It is icy. He didn't listen to you, you know. You're up at 3.30 in the morning. It's 22 degrees outside. You're falling down the steps. Everything's against you, whatever, whatever.

Frank: 36:17

Yeah, you sent that text that you said you said there was gonna be ice, and I think he said I don't think there's gonna be ice, or yeah, he said there's just gonna be snow, I think yeah, and it reminded me of sometimes when, like, obviously the stakes are way lower, but I've seen, I've had paramedics tell me about a call and it felt clear to me that they missed a clinically significant sign from the story. They told me okay, and then there was a bad outcome.

Jake: 36:54

Uh-huh.

Frank: 36:57

Just felt like a similar, like this seems like important, and you Kind of danced on past it. You know like well, he wasn't breathing, but we Did this, this and this yeah oh, that seems important, you know it's gonna be a massive ice storm. It was just come on in yeah yeah, exactly, those things are not ever. They don't ever seem intentional, but it's like you wonder what happened there, like what was going on, you do you do.

Jake: 37:31

But here's the other thing that and this is one of I don't know if this is related to gratitude or not, but it is one of the greatest changes to my mentality over the last couple of months, and that is that the keys to my peace are in my hands and no one else's.

Jake: 37:49

Definitely what I've done most of my life is I have handed the ability for me to be happy or at peace to someone else, making the healthy decision or being able to Do what I would do in a scenario. And so I go. Why don't you just figure it out? Let me explain to you why you're thinking about this wrong and maybe, if they get to my side of you know the the debate table, I go all right now I'm happy and that's gone. Now. I didn't need the owner of that gym to make the right decision. I was like you know what? I gave him the opportunity. He went that direction. The keys to my piece are with me and I don't need him to make the right decision. I don't even need him to know that he's stupid. I, yeah, I'm just gonna do it.

Frank: 38:40

What? So it? Was there a part of that experience where you said Maybe I shouldn't go in?

Jake: 38:48

Not really. Well, okay, like you could like.

Frank: 38:50

You considered it not that you did it, but yeah, you consider that. Like he would have said, the gyms on fire, but I need you to coach. You probably would say I'm not doing that because I hold the keys to my happiness kingdom or whatever.

Jake: 39:03

Yeah, I mean, there was a moment that morning. I slipped down the steps and I thought, oh, I don't know what the roads are like, and so I got out on the road and it was like, okay, it's slippery, but there's no one else around. I don't really feel like my Safety is at risk. Yeah, if I had felt that way, I probably would have been like, no, this is not gonna happen and he's gonna understand it, right. But in this situation I was just like, whatever, sure I'll make it happen.

Frank: 39:34

So, yeah, the gyms on fire situation, you know yeah, so the piece that's gone is just this need to man. It's that's too complicated to unpack in this episode, but it's this idea that you need to help someone else with the problem, right?

Jake: 39:58

Yeah, exactly, it's like he came to the wrong conclusion based on the information. It used to be that I needed him to understand why he was wrong and Potentially even make a different decision. Men's or something, yeah, and in this situation, that piece was gone. It was just like I know that he should have made a different call. He didn't. Whatever, how'd you get rid of that? Um, I Surround myself with my friends who are antagonistic toward the things that I struggled with. It was actually you.

Jake: 40:42

You Responded to me one time, I think it was last summer, in a text that really disrupted my piece and, okay, good, I wanted you to know that it was wrong.

Jake: 41:03

And so my brain started going through these ideas and it was like, yeah, and it's probably due to this childhood wound for you, and you know, I wanted to solve you, sure, and I watched my brain go through this cycle and I watched the way my body felt in that moment and I realized that I was Not happy and that the only way that I was going to be happy was for this to be resolved. And then there was just this moment of clarity that was like it's already resolved. You don't need anyone else to be different for you to be Happy and grateful and everything like. He's on his own path and that other person over there is on their own path, and If my happiness is dependent on them making the right choice every single time, I'm gonna spend my life miserable. And it was that moment of like taking my peace back for me that I then Started to cultivate. When I noticed that trigger in other areas of my life, it was like this used to be a trigger to get angry and to try to solve a problem. Now it's a trigger to release control where I don't have it.

Frank: 42:17

Nice. Yeah, I'm glad I could help you with that.

Jake: 42:20

Yeah, I sent you a text a couple days ago that said that I was really great for grateful for you as a friend and I was. I was proud of you as a Person who has come from a childhood that where you were told you're never gonna amount to anything. Yeah, you're probably gonna end up in prison. And look at what you're doing now, Like you have come so far. That's so cool and I love being in a friendship like that.

Jake: 42:44

But one of the things I said to you is that you have not only modeled for me what health can look like and what you know. You really helped me to move into like a meditation practice. I'd seen the value in it before, but I hadn't really Made it a discipline. But you showed me the value of that and you're a big reason why I do it and it's been incredible in my life. So you've modeled for me what health can look like and you've also antagonized me in some ways that you know. Go back to the resilience conversation. I could have been angered by it at times I was, but instead it's a gift and it's like you show me the parts of myself that I'm not struggling against you. I'm not angry with one of your behaviors. I'm actually struggling with something that, probably when I was three years old, I was told was an unacceptable thing to do and it introduces me to myself.

Frank: 43:53

That's the best part about other people, I think, is that you know if you can find some insight about them that seems to be bothering you, it's almost never a problem on their side. Yeah, yeah, I feel the same way about you. Yeah, I'm grateful for you. I'm grateful for you. I'll put you on my list. Sometimes, do you? Yeah, I like that. Thanks, man, Definitely, definitely have. It's weird, the weird, yeah, yeah. Sometimes that gratitude list results in just like an unstoppable barrage of things I'm grateful for. Like once I get going, I'm just like man, it's all amazing, yeah, and some days it's like I can't think of a single thing that I like in this world. Yeah, yeah, I don't know what that means, but well, it's.

Jake: 44:54

it's weird to me because, like so often, our emotions and our emotional state, our mental state, the thoughts in our minds are triggered by, literally, chemicals, and for me, the memory memory is a big piece of this.

Jake: 45:15

It's that piece I was talking about, where I said I've had situations where the worst thing that could happen actually resulted in something more amazing than I could have imagined. If I remember that those things happen, then I can be grateful for the pain in the present moment. And it's alchemy it turns a rock into gold and I don't want to like overstate that or make it sound like it just works for everyone. I don't know that it does. I think it is a skill that you cultivate. Gratitude is yeah, yeah, I think it is At first, because I think that that piece we mentioned, it's belief At first. It's going to feel delusional, I think. To write I'm thankful for the wind might feel disingenuous and authentic, like you're cheating.

Frank: 46:10

It feels stupid to me is what it feels like, but it's also like I love it. So that's the reason I mean I choose that simple one to start with, because I love it. But yeah, it does feel stupid, or something like I'm grateful for the wind, but have you ever just stood outside and felt it? Yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Try it, tuppies. Try it If you've never tried. Gratitude. This podcast is sponsored by gratitude.

Jake: 46:47

It's infectious. But not only is it infectious, I think it's contagious too, like when I say infectious, I mean like internally one thought is going to lead to another thought inside of you, until it has been passed, it's all over your body, but it's also contagious.

Frank: 47:05

So everyone around, you'll start saying it's has to say at the same time yeah, and that's how you'll know contagion has occurred. Contagion.

Jake: 47:14

When I think of gratitude, I think of the best disease Right.

Frank: 47:20

All right, go get you some. Is that everything? I think it is. We covered gratitude. We did. That was all of it. All right, thanks for listening, thanks, guys.